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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Howdy ho.

Car: 1.7 CDTi (Engine No: A17DTS)

Had this problem for a while now and thrown the parts cannon and minimal knowledge at it and come back with nothing. My car has been having problems starting when engine is warm/hot, (once it has started it drives perfectly) so I did a leak off test (idled for 3 mins) and results came back that the injectors maybe fucked. Different people say different things so unsure. The leak back ml are...

Cylinder 1 - 31ml
Cylinder 2 - 35ml
Cylinder 3 - 38ml
Cylinder 4 - 40ml

I changed the crank sensor, MAP sensor and EGR valve which did nothing. New in tank fuel pump last year, I've given it a fuel system clean, new filter etc and nowt. I drove it on the motorway the other day and once it l got up to motorway speed and engine at operating temp it would feel lumpy and juddery, but if I eased off the throttle and drive at about 60mph it was normal, not done this before. Now my new problem is... Drove it home from work and it started feeling lumpy and juddery again. Got home let it idle for abit and turned it off. Tried starting it a few hours later and it wouldn't start so knew it was fucked. Now this morning it still isn't starting and if and when it does fire up its lumpy and then dies. Managed to get it going a few times and kept the revs around 1500 for a few minutes to maybe clear it out, helped abit but its still lumpy, and sometimes dies if I let it idle. The black smoke coming out is nuts and coincides when it's lumpy/juddery. I put all my old parts back in, ie fuel pump and crank sensor and it changed nothing (I have put the new parts back in now). Does anyone have any ideas as to what it can be? I'm getting no EML/Codes so surely can't be electrical. Only thing I'm thinking is the High Pressure Fuel Pump, Fuel Pressure Regulator or Fuel Pressure Sensor. The fuel rail pressure when engine off is around 100psi and when I crank the ignition it goes up to 6500psi so don't think it's pump problem but what do I know.

Thanks
 

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2012 sxi 1.2 5 door in black
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Right am I right in thinking you’re engine is as vauxhall intended it to be? I’m just asking because if you’ve changed it or had a software flash and updated bits on it it’s almost sounding like a fuel delivery issue. Given you’ve replaced most of the obvious bits and it’s not putting any fault codes up as it’s running, there’s either mechanical wear somewhere or electrical breakdown when it’s getting hot. Are the fans coming in when they should? I’m probably talking 💩 but the ecu isn’t under the scuttle panel a la 1.3 cdti is it? All I’m thinking is water damage if it is? All your earth cables are sound and secure aren’t they? And going back to my first comment about it being a standard car, if it’s been “ livened up “ ahem, is the software sound?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It has been mapped and been mapped for years. The fan comes on at around 110°C and the coolant temp never goes above 92°c so the fan never has to come on, oil sits around 113°C so temps are fine. The ECU is under the scuttle panel, no signs of water damage.
 

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2012 sxi 1.2 5 door in black
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Like you said it could be a fault on the high pressure side but if it was a pump surely it’d be doing it from cold too now the only other thing I’ve just thought about is has she jumped a tooth and put timing out or god forbid she’s done the cam some mischief 😱
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Supposedly the Fuel Pressure Regulator on the HP pump causes these problems with trouble starting, mainly when warm, tried to take it out for clean but one of the bolts holding it in is in an awkward tight space and has now rounded off so **** knows how I'm getting that undone. Not sure about skipping a tooth, could have done I suppose, what symptoms would that cause?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Just remembered. Car started earlier and managed to move it but had to keep the revs high to stop it stalling. Drove halfway down the road and back, gave it a little power and it pulled well so surely a skipped belt wouldn't allow that the happen.
 

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At this stage I would try to replace injector in cylinder no 1. The return flow is very low relative to the others. They should all be over 35ml. You could try cleaning the nozzle or purchase a second hand one. A bad injector will also cause the black smoke that you described earlier. If you change the injector you will need to code the new one to the ecu
 

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2012 sxi 1.2 5 door in black
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That’s a good shout on injectors, as for the rounded off nut in the awkward place, it’s gonna need replacing at some stage so it might just be a case of take off around it to get access to it or take off what it’s fitted to and strip it down on the work bench/ kitchen table 😂
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Managed to get it off somehow 😁. There was no way to clean the regulator, it's a sealed unit. I had a new cambelt done about 6 months ago, I still had a look to make sure and there is no way it could've slipped a tooth so it's not that. I've been told that anything over 30ml at 3 mins idle means its a bad injector, tad weird all 4 are over the 30ml, then again I don't know the tolerances Vauxhall have on them and different people are saying different things. Would a sensor or electrical components always trip an EML?
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Was told the injector leak off results are inconclusive by a Vauxhall Specialist and a mate who works at a Vauxhall garage said as they're all pretty much level they seem OK. In total I've replaced the MAP sensor, MAF Sensor, Fuel Pressure Regulator, Fuel Pressure Sensor, EGR Valve, Fuel Pump, Fuel Filter, Fuel Temp Sensor, Cam Sensor and Crank Sensor and the problem still persists. Added some new parts this morning and it started fine, didn't judder, stall and it idled like normal so took it for a drive for new sensors to be calibrated etc and it drove well for about 3 minutes, the car would drop revs when coming to a stop and then it died, leaving me stranded. Car wouldn't start and had to be towed home...... AGAIN, so back to square one. Loosing my rag with trying to fix this thing.
 

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Hello again, reading your original post again your initial symptoms are difficulty starting the car when the engine is warm. One of the possible faults for this condition is the engine temperature sensor. Check this out as it should be easy to replace.
Forget injector no 1 as I suggested earlier, they are all approximately giving you the same leak off results.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have ordered a coolant temp sensor last night, should get it today. I'll be pissed off that all the money chucked at it and it turns out to be a £6 sensor. But that'll be my fault shooting parts at everything.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Coolant sensor did **** all, hard to start and when it did, I kept the revs over 2k to get to operating temp to hopefully relearn it all but didn't work. When it was at a steady rpm it sounded really choppy, sound like the intake air was getting chopped, best way to explain it. I've taken the intercooler and pipework off to inspect and clean next week, could be the culprit for hard starting when cold, doubtful but got to cover all bases. All seemed OK when I done a quick once over. I have a sneaky feeling the compression has gotten worse since I last checked a few months ago and now at the point of causing the death of the car. I'll recheck the compression next week and go from there. Mate is coming round on the 6th with his Tech2Win and I'll know then whether it's get rid for spares or repair or back on the road. I've pumped about £13k since I've had it and I'll be lucky to get £1k for it now. The downside to modifying I suppose.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Saying that, it can't be a compression problem cause when I'm able to drive it for the 3 mins or so before it dies it drives and pulls like normal. until its judders and stalls when coming to a stop. It has to be fuel delivery problem, it has to be. Maybe the new In-tank fuel pump is faulty? But then again it'll have driving issues surely. What symptoms would bad injectors cause? Maybe they're leaking into the cylinders flooding them causing hard starting but that doesn't explain hard starting when the engine is at operating temp.
 

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Sorry to hear that, must be very flustrating. At this stage I'd hold off doing anymore to it until your friend comes and can scan the car properly.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
That's exactly what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna have a fiddle with a few things without forking out any wedge and fingers crossed come out with a working car.
 

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It’s sounding like something that’s happening when it’s getting warm, electrical almost, like a sensor in the exhaust not working or radiator fans or temp not kicking in then it’s sending the engine into shutdown mode. As you say if it was mechanical it’d be doing it all the time, so compression being down would make it a pig to start, or there’s a broken piston ring that’s sending it all to cock when it gets warm, but until box of tricks is plugged in we can guess till cows come home and you’ve given it plenty with parts cannon so hopefully tech 2 will shed some light on things. Good luck and let us all know the outcome
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It's a fucker to start when cold aswell. Intercooler and piping seems good, and they're lovely and clean now :) Tested the injectors and wiring today and everything seems coushty so the electrical side of those are good. Leaves leaking injectors (more than likely) or compression (doubtful cause it would drive like ****). I haven't got anywhere with getting the car fix but I think I'm getting somewhere with the diagnosis.
 
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